Jon Lee Anderson is a staff writer for The New Yorker and author of the “The Fall of Baghdad” and “The Lion’s Grave: Dispatches from Afghanistan”. Anderson is an accomplished journalist who has reported on Iraq, Afghanistan and Iran extensively. His most recent work for The New Yorker is entitled Can Iran Change?. I had a gripping conversation with Anderson earlier this year by phone (from New York to his home in London) about Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, and the heavy odds journalists are facing in reporting on all three stories.
You were there when Baghdad fell, and despite the challenges you could still report the story without being forced to go through the U.S. military. How has that changed?
“In general Iraq has become better. There was a brief window of time following the invasion in 2003, there was an illusion by western reporters that it was somehow safe. It wasn’t really. Everyone was reeling from shock. The people that later fought back weren’t organized. By June, the killing had begun, and in June I recall a western British journalist was shot in the head. That was the first indication it was to me that it wasn’t safe.
“I’d seen Jihadis who had com in from other cities just melt away into the streets. By summer the assassinations had begun. That was the beginning of the terrorist outrage. By the end of 2004, things had intensified. Then it became clear there was a strategy on the part of the insurgents and the terrorists of clearing the landscape of the western presence down to what they wanted it to appear to be—pure military operations. That was when the kidnappings became to occur. That was when it became really gruesome in Iraq, and until about mid-2007 it became increasingly difficult to work.
“As Iraq descended into a full scale war and sectarian war, it became clear that you needed protection, you needed to stay in fortified housing, most journalists weren embedded with the military [living and working with military units]. It became very difficult to report unilaterally on the Iraqi side of things.
“After the surge, and the tactical alliance by the Sunnis with the Americans against Al Qaeda and the standing down more or less of the Shiite militias—that synergy of the surge, the tactical moves of both Shiite and Sunni extremists to sort of stand down a bit and to tactically realign themselves, that ended a lot of killing. It’s now not an even landscape, but there is less killing. It’s moved away from the brink of sectarian civil war. It’s also moved away from extremist totalitarianism.”
How is the Coverage of Iraq Today?
“There are very few westerner reporting on Iraq. It’s less a reflection of journalists or media themselves than to popular interest. The sheer scale of killing in Iraq was so horrendous they just switched off. By and large our society turned away from it–they turned away from the disasters and horrors of it.”
What has the Focus of Coverage Been?
If anything the focus has been on the political side of it, not in the nuts and bolts of the exotic architecture of the foreign things. It’s a complicated world and there are only so many crises Americans can fasten their attention on at one time. In the minds of most people, has moved away from near apocolypse to a place that has moved back from the brink and that has been reflected by a sigh and move a way from it by the media. Many media have spent a tremendous amount of money there. You can see where the Iraq stories are on the pages of the paper. The media tends to follow the administrations stories.”
How will Coverage in the Middle East Change in the Future?
“You’ll see more and more afghan stories. There will be more focus on that.”
Why is Afghanistan Important?
“Afghanistan remains a big unknown in many ways. It never got the attention that Iraq did, and it’s going to get very bloody before it gets better. In some ways we’re back to where we were in Iraq in late 2003-and 2004 in that the crux of that conflict which his yet to come. And because of the Pakistan phenomena which is wedded to it….in some ways it’s very difficult to call. Just from the point of view from insurgent logic and terrorist logic it makes sense to get rid of westerners. If the only ones are those with weapons, then it looks worse.
What’s it Like in Afghanistan for Journalists Trying to Report the Stories there?
“It’s very difficult to work in Afghanistan unless you’re embedded with a NATO contingent or a clan or warlord. It’s a challenge. There are still many ways in which we can, as reporters, work in Afghanistan that doesn’t require us being embedded. In some ways it offers more scope than Iraq did. With care and some experience, it is possible to tackle the country in a range of ways and come away with pieces of the puzzle. It’s not necessary to exclusively be with foreign military forces.”
What are Some Key Stories in the Puzzle that is Afghanistan?
“There’s a number of ways we can continue to go in. There are the Tajik and Uzbek areas in the north with all kinds of personalities who offer ways to see aspects of the country. There’s a possibility of renewed civil war if the Americans and NATO don’t pull this off. The ethnic tension is a submerged part of the stories. It’s a story that is not being reported on and should be reported on. All you have to do is look at the country and its history and you’ll see there are other major groups in the country that are not going to sit idly by. So we’re looking at a very complex situation. Just as nobody really talked about a Sunni-Shiite sectarian war, nobody is talking right now about the possibility of the country polarizing along ethnic lines.”
What do you Think About Journalists Embedding? [Living with military units]
“For about 2 or 3 years now this has almost been like a criticism or challenge thrown at western journalists. What would they have them do—be murdered? I’ve covered over a dozen conflicts and I’ve never been in such a murderous environment [as Iraq]. All rules were thrown out the window on this one. Journalists cannot be faulted for trying to preserve their lives. On the other hand they have continued to go and report the news that nobody seems to want to hear. Usually people who are saying it in order to dismiss the media and what they do. And usually it comes from an ideological point of view.
“Personally I don’t really like embedding myself. I began reporting in the 80’s in post-Vietnam and very skeptical of U.S. military abroad. My early reporting was in the field in guerrilla counter-insurgency operations. So my instinct is to be more autonomous or independent. But younger journalists don’t necessarily have that skepticism. There is also that kind of patriotic urge that kicks in with the younger journalists following 9/11. There’s an illusion that everything has been censored, and it’s not the case.”
What do You See Happening in the Coming Year?
“I think this coming year you’ll see a huge increase in military activity [in Afghanistan] and therefore political and journalist interest. It’s going to be difficult. You’re talking about a much more wild environment. It’s already much more dangerous there, so we’re going to see a lot more embedded reporting, and that’s a pity, because it’s not known enough as a human terrain.”
What is Afghanistan Like?
“It remains this exotic landscape. In some ways it’s inevitable. Much of the country does exist in what for us is a kind of time warp. It is like stepping back in time in many ways—there are parts of the country that exist as it has for centuries. One of the last time I was there I met a jester who was in the service of warlords. It’s a fascinating, untapped history—he was a jester, just as the jesters of yester years were in Europe. And he seemed to be one of the last ones.
“There’s these wonderful, untapped veins of human history. You’re aware that you could just as easily be in 1382 as in 2008. It can be extremely sobering, illuminating, enlightening.
“Iraq, for all of it’s local traditions and everything else, was a more kindred social environment than Afghanistan is. It’s a lot closer to Europe. Afghanistan remains one of the great untamed environments where war has been a tool of politics. War is politics in Afghanistan. The country has always been a battleground of history.”
You’ve just returned from Iran. Any thoughts about allegations about IED’s with Iranian or made in Iran?
Iran’s not easy to work in—none of them are. Each of them are very different, and depending on the time, it depended on the time. Access has very much been contingent in some ways on security rather than on political atmosphere. Westerners and particularly Americans have become targets, irrespective of their vocation or anything else, westerners are targets in these conflicts. Depending on where the war has gone and the degree to which the perceived deterrent, it is more or less safe, bu it is becoming increasingly dangerous, just as did at one point when western civilians became targets. It’s extremely dangerous.”
